Market Dominance Guys

Market Dominance Guys header image 1

Not Getting Trained? Train Yourself!

August 17, 2021


How do you improve your cold calling skills if your present company isn’t providing any sales training? Train yourself! Until you can get with the right company, borrow ideas from the best sales experts you can find (many have been guests on this podcast), take improv classes, join Toastmasters, and keep your mind open to absorb what works. Our Market Dominance Guy Corey Frank is talking in more depth about training yourself during this second part of his conversation with Susan Finch, president of Funnel Media and Funnel Radio. He advises listeners that salespeople should fall in love with their craft — not the product they’re selling. How do you do that? Care about the potential value of the meeting for your prospect and remember the “why” of what you’re doing. And what skills should you hone? Learn what moves prospects to make a decision, create a well-written script and adhere exactly to it, use the tone of voice that elicits the response you want, and most importantly, leave your own mood and ego behind when you make a cold call. Train yourself to remember that it’s not about you. When you place a call, it’s showtime!

Listen to the first half of this interview here:

Are You Laying Brick, or Making $12 an Hour?

Here's the complete transcript for this episode:

Susan Finch (00:06):

Welcome to another episode with the Market Dominance Guys, a program about the innovators, idealists, and the entrepreneurs who thrive and die in the high-stakes world of building a startup company. We explore the cookbooks, guidebooks, and magic beans needed to grow your business.

Susan Finch (00:35):

How do you improve your cold calling skills if your present company isn't providing any sales training? Train yourself. Until you can get with the right company, borrow ideas from the best sales experts you can find. Many have been guests on this podcast. Take improv classes, join Toastmasters, and keep your mind open to absorb what works.

Susan Finch (00:55):

Our Market Dominance Guy, Corey Frank, is talking in more depth about training yourself during the second part of his conversation with me, Susan Finch, from Funnel Radio. He advises listeners that salespeople should fall in love with their craft, not the product they're selling. How do you do that? Care about the potential value of the meeting for your prospect and remember the why of what you're doing. And what skills should you hone? Learn what moves prospects to make a decision. Create a well-written script and adhere exactly to it. Use the tone of voice that elicits the response you want. And most importantly, leave your own mood and ego behind when you make a cold call. Train yourself to remember that it's not about you when you place that call. It's showtime. Listen to this episode of Market Dominance Guys. Not getting trained? Train yourself.

Susan Finch (02:00):

And in my own business, in the podcasting, I've watched the weasels and the people that hide, "Oh, it costs this much." Why? Why is it nine times as much as I charge? "Oh, because we do this." Is that nobody cares about that. Why is that so expensive? When, what's the benefit for the people you're promoting? If I don't make you guys look good, and help you grow, and give you confidence, you can speak better everywhere you go, I am failing.

Corey Frank (02:26):

Sure. Well, you have though, sales folks. It doesn't matter if they're experienced or new, but certainly, it's more common in newer folks. It's common in more mediocre folks who just go from job to job, to job, and you see their LinkedIn kind of stack up, is that they have a tough time introducing that tension that we were talking about because again, the need to be liked, the need to be accepted. And I think that leads them down a path, if they value supplication too much in the denominator that it's going to cause them to over-promise maybe a product delivery, a product feature, add in things that they know they can't deliver on. It's almost as if I would ... I wouldn't question anybody's necessarily ethics, but it's the root of, publicly people see it as dishonorable. Internally, I think that starts and it manifests into that dishonor because of a need for approval more than anything else. Would you agree with that? Or is it ...

Susan Finch (03:23):

I would agree with that, but I'm wondering, not everybody is this familiar with Orin as they should be, or you and Chris. Can you give us an example of building that tension with those four elements in there?

Corey Frank (03:37):

Well, it's an easy way. Now, this has to be delivered with the deft sense of humor and self-deprecation. But let's say we have a meeting scheduled Susan, and it's you, and it's your VP of sales, and it's your CEO, and you're my product champion. But, two or three other people, executives are supposed to show up for the demo. And you show up, of course, you're my champion, but the others do not. Or the CEO doesn't. Whoever is that stakeholder that I really need, that I was implying was going to be at this meeting, doesn't show up. It's 11 o'clock. It's 11:01, it's 11:02, it's 11:03. And Orin is famous for, let's say they show up about 11:04, then make an entrance. Now, incredibly disrespectful for the other folks who are on the line. I know they're busy. They're executives as are, but no busier than other folks.

Corey Frank (04:25):

Orin's way to introduce tension, as one of many example is, Susan comes on and, "Oh, Susan, you must be here for the 11:04 meeting." Right? Now, that little bit of tension. Now I can't say, "Susan, what, are you here for the 11:04?" I have to flirt with that. And I usually have to follow up with a little bit of self-deprecation to say that, "I don't take myself seriously," but sometimes that's enough to say, okay. And then usually nine times out of 10, they'll say, "Oh, I'm sorry. I was tied up," and that's all you want. Just to say ...

Corey Frank (04:58):

And people who start off meetings with say, "Susan, Chris, Henry, so glad you guys could carve out this time. I really appreciate, I know how busy you guys are. I really think that this is going to be something you're going to be excited about. I really appreciate you," and it's like, whoa, your status is diminishing, diminishing, diminishing. And that's going to be a little bit tougher if I start to introduce tension after I'm the nice guy, over the top, trying to build rapport, asking about your favorite sports team and your weekend. And then at the end of the call, I try to introduce some tension by, "The price goes up on Monday," close, or, "We're really busy." And, trying to squeeze you into a decision. That's the wrong place to use tension because it's so transparent, right? And so the right place to use tension is generally out of the gate when you're starting that initial banter back and forth.

Corey Frank (05:59):

Example two, similar to that is, Susan, we all show up, we're waiting for Chris. It's 11:03, 11:04. And I say, "Listen, I tell you what, it's 11:04. Let's go ahead and get started." And you may say, "Well, can we give Chris another minute or two?" Or, "He's coming." And I would say right, as opposed to, "Oh sure. No problem." And then you talk small talk, waiting, right? Instead, say, "I'll tell you what, Chris seems like a smart guy. He can play catch-up. Let's get started." Now I say it with a smile, but immediately my status goes up like, "Hey, listen, this isn't a vendor. This is somebody who has something critical to say." So those are two ways to kind of introduce tension into, subtle tension into the sales practice.

Susan Finch (06:48):

But, I do appreciate that. The other thing that you did with that, the 11:04 meeting. You've said, "I was on time. I'm just the same level you are. You are no high and mighty, extra busy person. Because I'm equal with you, I can poke you a little bit. We can play a little bit. Because I don't have to be afraid of you."

Corey Frank (07:10):

That's right.

Susan Finch (07:11):

"Because I'm no less than you." And that's what Cheryl Turner does.

Corey Frank (07:15):

She's amazing. Yeah. I mean, I think Chris gives her the crown of the best cool caller in the world. And I would really put the onus on anybody to try to take that title away from her. Because, but it is just that, right, Susan? It is that, her status. In a pitch anything world, right? I have true status alignment. And that is something that is also worked on here. We're better at it today than we were yesterday. And we'll be better at it tomorrow than we are today at coaching on it because you have a lot of stuff that goes on in the life of a younger grad, certainly, besides what's on the mindset of a CEO for hitting P&L, and numbers, and finances, and raising money, et cetera.

Corey Frank (07:57):

And so, tone changes daily based off of what happened in their life. Did they lose that Call of Duty? Did their dog crap on their carpet? Did they get their first student loan payment? Are they anxious about their roommates? Whatever it is, did their Bitcoin kind of plummet? And so, they may read the same screenplay, but they may not perform it at an Academy Award level every single day. And I think that's one thing that Cheryl does is, she's the modern-day equivalent of the Iceman. Remember from Top Gun, and Val Kilmer became, his name was the Iceman because he waited for the other person to make a mistake. He flew ice-cold. Cheryl certainly has a great personality, outsized personality, but she does not make mistakes in the pieces that normally costs other people conversions, right? It's consistent. It's amazing.

Susan Finch (08:52):

I truly believe salespeople, if you guys have some extra time, at the very least read a book on improv.

Corey Frank (09:00):

That's a great one.

Susan Finch (09:01):

Join Toastmasters, because you will learn many things, including how to listen and shut up. And if you can read the book on improv, see if there's a way, those of you in LA, even up here in Portland, we can take improv classes and it's mainly to get us to look for those openings.

Susan Finch (09:24):

We'll be back in a moment after a quick break.

Susan Finch (09:33):

Connect and Sell. Welcome to the end of dialing as you know it. Give your fingers a rest. With Connect and Sell's patented technology, you'll load your best sales folks up with eight to 10 times more live qualified conversations every single day. And when we say qualified, we're talking about really qualified, like knowing how many tears were shed while watching Titanic kind of qualified.

Susan Finch (10:00):

And we're back. Those are additional training skills. If you're not going to get trained properly by whomever you're working for, get trained for the next better position you're going to get, working for somebody that will appreciate what you're bringing, because sometimes that's all we're doing is biding time, until we can get to the right company.

Corey Frank (10:18):

Yeah. There's a lot of folks that are in this coma of complacency and they're just kind of live in this world, like a ship without a rudder, drifting from port to port. Hoping that trade winds will have them go into a port of prosperity or something, biding time. And so when we see that, because it happens, right? People get into a rut, and I think the French word for rut is routine. So, when people get into that comfort flow, we try to do is remind them again of their why. And, one of the bits we do here pretty often with newer folks is that imagine you're in the cast of Cats or Hamilton, you're on Broadway. In this, let's take Cats. It's been on Broadway for like what, 28 years or something like that. Right?

Corey Frank (11:03):

And there's a little old lady. She's in Mission, Kansas. Outside Mission, Kansas. And she's a widow and she's always wanted to see Cats on Broadway. She lives in mission Kansas, but she saves her egg money. People buy eggs on the side of the road, and vegetables, and a little firewood here and there. And she saves up all her pennies, and nickels, and dimes. And she gets enough to get a bus ticket, to take her from Mission, Kansas to New York City. And the only ticket she can afford is a Tuesday afternoon matinee, not a Friday night performance when all the stars are in the house. And she can't afford a seat down, she's got way up in the top of the mezzanine, right? I mean, it takes her a while to get up the stairs, but she's up there. And here it is Tuesday at two o'clock. She's clutching her purse and her ticket. And she's just giddy.

Corey Frank (11:45):

She has been waiting for this for 28 years. Tuesday performance. Now those performers at Cats, they're backstage, they're probably out in the alley kind of smoking it. They've done this a thousand times. The bell rings like, "Okay, we got to go, okay? Let's get into character." If you're a professional, when that bell rings and that curtain goes up, it is as if it's opening night. Is as if it is an Oscar-worthy performance recorded by HBO, because you always have to think that there's a little old lady up in the rafters who saved everything. If we can kind of get in that mindset, when we feel like we're in a routine, to shake us and say, "Wait, it's not about me." That, as you had said at the outset, Susan, right? It's there's an honor. There's a selflessness.

Corey Frank (12:31):

I just got back from a European trip with my son. And one of the places we went to, was going to Notre Dame Cathedral, and we saw, you could see it was burned. But, when you see that, that place started architecturally, right, 350 years in the making. That the architect's sons, sons, sons, son would barely live to see it completed, you start to see that Europe is full of these. The Colosseum in Rome, the Vatican, these mammoth projects that it's not necessarily about me. I got to be, build a cathedral. Can I make sure everything's in the right place? If it's the selfie generation, it's only about me, and me, and my comp plan. Then chances are, is we're not going to see too many cathedrals built in our lifetime.

Corey Frank (13:19):

So that's why I think when you look at the shows that you do, and that Funnel Media does, right? If there's one connective tissue that lives through all of them, it is professionals by professionals, true master craftsmen of their performing art, whether it be sales or whether it be the med-tech or any of the other shows that Funnel Media Group produces. And I don't think that if you're a new lead graduated, or even if you're five, six, seven, 10 years in, you can get enough of that in your life.

Susan Finch (13:50):

That's the community. Since we are all virtual, choose what you put in your head, choose what to surround yourself with. Do we want to surround ourselves with the negative, the bashing of this and then that, or would you rather surround ourselves with people that have done it way better than us for a very long time, and that everybody respects? Wouldn't you want to bring that into your heart, into your head, into your ears, whatever it is, because something's going to stick?

Corey Frank (14:21):

A mentor of mine called it, "I paid your stupid tax for you. All my mistakes, all the residue from my stupid decisions. I paid your stupid tax, so you don't have to pay it again. So just open up your eyes and your ears once in a while, humble yourself, and know that somebody else paid the dollars that makes your life and your job a little bit easier today."

Susan Finch (14:43):

Right? You talk about the common thread between all the shows that Funnel produces. It's deeper than ... Yeah, it's professionals and you guys all have a ton of experience, and I've learned so much from all of you. My husband, he says, "You're so myopic. All you do is listen to your guys," and I don't have any more time. So at least I have the good ones with me. But the deeper thing that all of you have in common, no matter your creed, your faith, your nationality, it doesn't even matter. You all have a servant's heart. Every one of you. There isn't one host in this group out of the 15 shows we produce currently that does not have a servant's heart and is not humble.

Corey Frank (15:27):

Yeah. Yeah.

Susan Finch (15:28):

It's huge.

Corey Frank (15:29):

Yeah. Absolutely. So, a testament, I think, to how you sold art. You attract that. One of the quotes that Orin says quite often is, "By the work, you shall know the workman."

Susan Finch (15:41):


Corey Frank (15:41):

And by the Funnel Media Group, you know everything there is to know about your designers, and your audio techs, and your producers, and your hosts, and everything else. And, I think that's a testament, but that's really how Chris and I got together on Market Dominance Guys is I would call him. I've known Chris for 15 years, 20 years, almost 20 years. And I would call him periodically, always hat in hand, always a finger away from hitting record because I had a problem. And Chris would pick up in an airport, he'd pick up on his vacation, he'd pick up on a boat. He would always pick up. And that's what a dear humble person he is, to always give back.

Corey Frank (16:20):

I never got an invoice unless I became a client of his, then I got big invoices. But I never got an invoice for that. And I think that sets the tone of why a company like Connect and Sell, right? The fish stinks from the head down, and the opposite is also true. We got people like Cheryl and we've had a lot of his top dogs on this show, haven't we?

Susan Finch (16:36):


Corey Frank (16:37):

Mark, and, it's a testament, I think, to not only what Chris does, but what Funnel Media does and the type of talent that they attract.

Susan Finch (16:43):

Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

Corey Frank (16:45):

Of course. Of course.

Susan Finch (16:46):

I mean, it's a joy. So, as a company that has helped to build and be part of this Branch 49 and this whole program at GCU, what would you put out there as a challenge to other companies, especially those that want quality salespeople in their future? What's their part then to ensure that without just vetting people to hire them, how do we get them down that path in the first place so that they are somebody we want to hire?

Corey Frank (17:14):

I think if we go back to your example of when you worked in the art gallery, you learn to appreciate art because you knew what the story was. And you knew that the artist laid bare his soul emotionally and manifested in the form of all these colors in this piece of canvas? You understood that creative process enough to convey that sense of emotion to the buyer and that connection was made, and then that sale was made. But you understood bio-physiology probably subconsciously before you knew it and studied why people do what they do. And I think for most employers or organizations today, is if you have a complacent sales organization or sales organizations that stop growing, or it's only growing because of market factors, not because of development factors, is how can you get your team to fall in love with their craft? Not necessarily what their product. That's going to come, but they fall in love with their craft? The nuances of voice, and tone, and pacing. The creative aspects of writing a screenplay with the right sequencing moves people.

Corey Frank (18:24):

Marvel is Marvel today because of Kevin Feige and because of the writers, but the consistent story journey, a reluctant hero who has a trait that he sees, or she sees as an asset, but it's really a liability. Pride cometh before the fall. Takes out their legs. They're rock bottom. A guide comes, appears. Helps them realize that no, what they saw as their liability is really their asset. And then they save the world, right? But that's, as you know, from being too, that's the cosmic addict cycle, that Joseph Campbell stuff that, we are-

Susan Finch (19:03):

A hero's journey.

Corey Frank (19:04):

We're tuned into that frequency, right? That's kind of the vicar inside of us, for thousands of Aboriginal cultures have the same narrative arc. And I think once you understand that as a sales rep and realize, "Wow, I don't have to wing it. I can actually have a system that doesn't sound like a system." And there are too many folks who put you into a system, but they don't tell you the why the system, the anatomy of what happens when I say this with this tone, versus this with this tone. And you see the reaction in your prospects, and then it gets addicting.

Corey Frank (19:38):

But it all comes down to breaking down the story craft, as you had mentioned, the bio-physiology of why people buy, not buy. How they're moved emotionally. The story of the little old lady. Knowing that, okay, if they can do that versus pitching a product, any organization will reap the benefits. And everyone's going to have a hell of a lot more fun, right? They're going to be smiling and building more cathedrals and saving men's souls, more than just laying brick.

Susan Finch (20:03):

I think that's a great way to end this episode.

Corey Frank (20:06):

Beautiful. Well, listen, I appreciate what you do, Susan. You're so awesome. And as we said, at the beginning of this here, we've got to put it into our contract for Market Dominance Guys that we get at least one dedicated episode where we can do all the talking. And certainly, I can do my share of talking and as opposed to just Chris and all of our wonderful guests, so.

Susan Finch (20:25):

Be sure to subscribe, everybody. Find Market Dominance Guys on all your favorite podcast venues. You will find them also where you start, you'll see some of the extracts and our highlights over on YouTube, on the Connect and Sell channel, and you can find them on the Funnel Media Group. So, we are everywhere. Just look for Market Dominance Guys. Get in there, subscribe, start from the beginning if you want to go on this journey, or pick and choose based on the title.

Susan Finch (20:47):

Thanks so much, Corey, it was a pleasure, and welcome home. You've been missed.

Susan Finch (20:56):

Today's show is also brought to you by Selling a big idea to a skeptical customer or investor is one of the hardest jobs in business. So when it's really time to go big, you need an uncommon methodology to convince others that your ideas will truly change their world. Through a modern and innovative sales and scripting toolset, we offer a guiding hand to ambitious leaders in their quest to reach market dominance. It's time to get uncommon with

Susan Finch (21:26):

Never miss an episode. Go to any of your favorite podcast venues and search for Market Dominance Guys, or go to and subscribe.