Market Dominance Guys

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Do You Want an Awesome Life?


In today’s episode of the Market Dominance Guys, Chris Beall and Corey Frank continue their conversation about the unifying convergence of B2B and B2C sales tactics with Jeff Lerner, CEO and founder of Entre Institute. The product Jeff’s company offers its customers is empowerment for people wanting to have a better, more successful life. As he explains it, “Everyone wants an awesome life. There's nothing special about wanting one, but defining your awesome life and executing on a strategic plan to create it, regardless of personal circumstances, is something most don't ever do. You have to be committed to excellence.”

In talking about why excellence isn’t pursued by most people, Chris explains, “Excellence is a form of exile from the community they grew up in — in which people mostly complained about how bad things are in their lives.” Jeff simplifies the process of switching from complaining to pursuing an “awesome” life with his offer of Entre’s blueprint, which lays out three areas of concentration — personal, professional, and physical — which he has named the "3 Ps.” Listen to Chris, Corey, and Jeff discuss the 3Ps, plus the particulars of how Jeff dominates his market using social media videos, and how that B2C approach correlates with the Market Dominance Guys’ B2B approach of “conversations first” on today’s episode, “Do You Want an Awesome Life?”

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How to Get from Stuck to Unstuck

Inflow, Flow, Waiting  How to get unstuck


This week, the Market Dominance Guys, Chris Beall and Corey Frank, walk you through the three states of cycle time for start-up businesses or for any company that’s trying to launch a new product or service. There’s in flow. There’s stuck. And there’s waiting. Using an example from his own company’s experience launching Flight School, their brand-new sales-rep training program, Chris tells what happened when they thought they were in flow and ready to set meetings for discovery calls, but soon found that prospects didn’t respond as enthusiastically as expected to what his company was offering. In other words, they were stuck.

But what was the problem? It’s a great program! Why weren’t their prospects seeing the value of what was being offered? Chris explains that it’s often necessary to put your own narcissism aside in order to clearly look at all the possible reasons why you’re not moving toward success as quickly as you think you should be. Only then can you be open to exploring and utilizing all the resources that might help you get unstuck. As he says, “You need to plumb the depths of your ignorance! You need knowledge!” As practical and helpful as usual, our Market Dominance Guys offer advice on this common problem encountered by almost every startup company. Join them for today’s episode, “How to Get from Stuck to Unstuck.”


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The Right Skills for the Job - AI vs. Humans

Market Dominance Guys Chris Beall and Corey Frank Right Skills for the Job

Chris Beall and Corey Frank, our Market Dominance Guys, explore the subject of artificial intelligence taking over jobs held by humans. It’s an emotional issue, to be sure. But instead of looking at this as an either/or concern, the Market Dominance Guys take a different tack by asking,” What do humans do well? What do machines do well? And what can they do together?” You may be thinking, “Wait a minute! Using AI will help us run our business much more cheaply than keeping all those humans on our payroll.” If so, Chris asks you to take a few steps back and look at the big picture by asking yourself, “What’s my main goal here?” In other words, should you be concentrating on how to operate your company more cheaply, or should you be thinking about what will help you dominate your market? And what skill sets are required for your company to do that?


Using a sales department as an example, Chris and Corey discuss the different cluster of skills needed for each type of job in that division and which ones can be handled by either humans or artificial intelligence — or by a combination of both. As usual, you can trust the Market Dominance Guys to steer you in the right direction when it comes to dominating YOUR market, just as they do on today’s podcast, “The Right Skills for the Job.”

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Which Comes First, Traction or Scale?



Our Market Dominance Guys, Chris Beall and Corey Frank, continue their discussion about churn and its various causes. Today’s topic is about how a company’s growth is managed. Are the guiding forces going after traction first? Or are they jumping right into how to scale before they have worked out their product’s kinks? Chris and Corey talk about the tragedy of designing for scale before you have traction. As Chris will tell you, it’s a fool’s errand. If you have no traction, no conversations with your buyers, then you’re not going to learn anything about what your customers need or about why they may not be coming back. Once again, market dominance is achieved when you investigate your churn! And that’s done with conversations.

Today’s podcast winds up with a question of “Who’s in charge here?” when it comes to how to steer a company toward success. Is it the investors you’ve taken money from, who may be pressuring you to scale quickly? Or is it your customers, who, if asked, will tell you what they do or don’t like about your product or service, guiding you toward what you should do to keep them renewing? Listen in to what Chris and Corey think about this important matter on today’s Market Dominance Guys’ episode, “Which Comes First? Traction or Scale?”

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All Churn is Not Created Equal

All Churn is Not Created Equal - Market Dominance Guys

Our Market Dominance Guys, Chris and Corey, are back this week with an episode about “churn.” No, they’re not talking about butter-making here. They’re addressing business churn — a measurement of cancellations or non-renewals of your company’s product or service. Are you thinking, “Churn: What can I do about it?” If you’re like many people, you may look at your company’s churn rate, give a philosophical shrug, and go back to hunting for more prospects to replace those MIA customers. But is it really easier to find new customers than it is to figure out what went wrong? As the folk-rock band, The Byrds, might have sung in the 60s, “To every cancellation (churn, churn, churn), there is a reason (churn, churn, churn).”

Corey points out that some churn is inevitable, but not all churn. Examination of cause and effect is needed! In a spirit of solidarity, Chris comes clean about what unexamined churn cost ConnectAndSell, the company he works for. He explains that he had to put arrogance aside and face the fact that their customers weren’t getting the full benefit from ConnectAndSell’s sales- acceleration platform simply because reps didn’t know how to successfully conduct a cold call. And, thus, a training program was born. Yes, it’s shine-a-bright-light-on-the-problem time on the Market Dominance Guys in today’s episode, “All Churn Is Not Created Equal.”

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Strategize, Execute, Evaluate, Repeat


On today’s episode of the Market Dominance Guys, Chris and Corey continue their conversation with Jason Beck, Vice President of Sales at Enerex, by addressing how sales got a dirty name. Chris explains that in ancient times, the salesman met the buyer face to face, but the encounter was usually a one-time transaction. Then, the camel caravan moved on, and if the buyer wasn’t happy with his purchase, there was no one to appeal to for a replacement and no one to lodge a customer complaint with. Ancient sales was a hit-and-run relationship that frequently left a bad taste in the buyer’s mouth about salesmen. But in modern times, the sale is never over, because the telephone and the internet have created an ongoing relationship between sellers and buyers. The modern salesperson needs to understand that you can run, but you can’t hide, which makes it imperative that reps provide value to their customers.

Jason and the Market Dominance Guys segue into a discussion of what type of personalities are best suited to be salespeople and what types should definitely NOT hold this job. The attributes of being pro-active and persistent are touted, as well as the importance of being in sales for the right reasons. As Jason puts it, “If closing the deal at the end of the day isn’t what you live for, then don’t be in sales.”

This team of sales-savvy guys wraps things up with a discussion of the cycle of the sales process for a new product and why it works — as this podcast’s title says — to Strategize, Execute, Evaluate, and Repeat.

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I’m Not the Salesman Your Mother Warned You About

Market Dominance Guys welcomes Jason Beck

The Market Dominance Guys, Chris and Corey, welcome a new guest this week: Jason Beck, Vice President of Sales at Enerex. Or as Corey dubbed him — the Pied Piper of Retail Energy.

The topic today? What leads to the adoption of a new product or service.

Jason is a big believer in the role of trust in establishing business relationships that will lead to adoption. “Trust is so hard to gain,” he says, “and so easy to lose.” In gaining trust, it’s a two-step program, Jason explains. First, be honest in the claims you make about your product’s value — not as you hope it will one day perform, but as it performs today. And second, find out what your prospects fear most and make sure you and your company are none of those things. If you’re trying to dominate any market, Jason continues, you need to be working toward that tipping point where your initial adopters, whose trust you have successfully gained, will begin vouching for you to your new prospects.

Chris, Corey, and Jason end the podcast with a frank discussion about that dirty word “sales.” They talk about the negative reputation sales acquired and why people fear being sold to. You’ll want to listen in for Chris’ insights about how to turn that frown upside down by shining a brighter light on the necessary role of salespeople in the B2B world. Join us for this episode of The Market Dominance Guys: I’m Not the Salesman Your Mother Warned You About.

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Got Pain? Have I Got a Product for You!

Roderick Jefferson on The Market Dominance Guys

Join us on the Market Dominance Guys as Chris and Corey continue their conversation about sales enablement with CEO Roderick Jefferson of Roderick Jefferson & Associates. This week, the guys address the challenge of hiring the right people for this function — people who have a certain level of sales credibility within the company. Roderick explains that in order to be a respected voice and get a vote when it comes to providing sales enablement tools and processes to support the sales team, you need to bring people on board who have extensive sales experience.

Now, don’t get him wrong: Roderick is not advocating a perpetual continuation of “Do sales the way we’ve always done sales.” Instead, he suggests hiring those who understand that what really works in sales is helping clients maintain their customer roster, and aiding clients with increasing THEIR profits, reducing THEIR costs, and mitigating THEIR risks. In other words, your need to hire a sales enablement team dedicated to having conversations with prospects about business outcome. Roderick states that to do this, sales people have to stop giving presentations and start having conversations — true discovery conversations.

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An Enabler Is a Good Thing — in Sales

Roderick Jefferson - An Enabler Is a Good Thing - In Sales

Today on the Market Dominance Guys, you’re invited to join Chris and Corey and their guest, Roderick Jefferson, the CEO of Roderick Jefferson & Associates, a global sales enablement consultancy firm. This trio of sales gurus outlines the whys and how's of providing sales teams with the information, training, content, and tools that reps need to successfully engage buyers throughout the buying journey. This is known as “sales enablement.” Sounds like a pretty simple “follow the blueprints” process, doesn’t it? And, yet, as Roderick informs us, if you ask 10 people what sales enablement is, you’ll get a multitude of answers.


Chris and Roderick discuss this quandary and, more specifically, how the pandemic has impacted training and overseeing sales teams now that each rep works from home, physically away from their manager’s watchful eye. Roderick relates this problem to that of an orchestra whose conductor is missing. Like so many other things now, sales enablement must be fine-tuned to this new situation. In order to orchestrate and conduct a sales team so that each rep plays their part and uses the provided resources in a collaborative manner, a major change must take place in how they are managed.

If you’re a follower of the Market Dominance Guys, you know that this episode will have you nodding along with the opinions of Chris, Corey, and their guest, and jotting down notes from their insights. Stay tuned! They aim to help you dominate your market! 

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Never, Never, NEVER Retire a Follow-Up Call

Never Retire a Follow-up Call - Donny Crawford on The Market Dominance Guys

In this follow-up to last week’s Market Dominance Guys’ podcast, “Your Sales People Are Brain Surgeons,” Chris and Corey have another conversation with ConnectAndSell’s customer success manager, Donny Crawford, about using the telephone plus your beliefs to gain market dominance.

First things first, they discuss how to get prospects on the phone who are the most likely to set a meeting with you. It sounds like a numbers game — more dialing equals more people picking up the phone, which equals more meetings set, right? But as every sales rep knows, you can lead a prospect to a conversation, but you can’t make them link you to their calendar. That rate of success is fairly low. In his experience calling on prospects, though, Donny discovered an amazing way to increase the dial-to-meeting conversion rate: make more calls to people on your follow-up list. He found out that if at first you don’t succeed, call, call, call again. Wait till you hear what his success rate is — and then listen to the story Chris tells about follow-up calls, which corroborates Donny’s experience.

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Your Sales People Are Brain Surgeons


What do you do if you have a group of 25 or so folks on your sales team, and you want to really make a splash in the first quarter of the new year? Due to the on-going pandemic, we all  know that connecting with customers face to face at trade shows is no longer an option. No doubt, your reps are still working from home, most of them researching their prospects and trying a little social media marketing, but all of them eventually doing the traditional dialing, dialing, dialing, and praying, praying, praying that someone will pick up the phone. How, in the name of all that’s financially holy, are your reps going to help your company dominate its market if they simply continue to use the same old methods during this brave new year we are entering?

Our two Market Dominance Guys, Chris and Corey, along with this week’s guest, ConnectAndSell Customer Success Manager Donny Crawford, diagnose the problem of what’s keeping companies from the market domination they desire. These three cold-calling practitioners offer their insights into what works best to get the greatest number of conversations with decision makers — despite cold call outcomes like “Not me,” “Not now,” “Not interested,” “Call back later,” or even the dreaded hang-up. Wait till you hear Donny’s proven method for how to turn repeated hang-ups from a prospect into the appointment you’re after.

Chris compares the work of a salesperson to that of a brain surgeon, first cracking open a company’s “skull” by getting that first appointment, and then exploring what’s wrong inside the “brains” of a company by having a discovery conversation. Join Chris, Corey, and Donny as they guide you through that operation during this episode of Market Dominance guys, "Your Sales People are Brain Surgeons."

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Diagnosing Discovery Call Failures

Diagnosing Discovery Call Failures with Oren Klaff, Corey Frank, and Chris Beale

In this episode of Market Dominance Guys, we’ll dissect that sales process called the “discovery call” and diagnose the problem that is keeping sales reps from making a successful one. Chris, Corey, and Oren Klaff, managing director of Intersection Capital, share their opinions on the subject, and lament the unfortunate fact that most sales reps have no set method for conducting a discovery call that includes true discovery.

As Oren describes it, “Selling is a bit icky, and [salespeople] want to retreat quickly back to the relative calm of their normal lives. Once a salesperson hears one thing [from the prospect] that’s an indicator of interest, they want to hit the buzzer” and immediately jump to the sales pitch so they can end their own discomfort. As Oren sees it, this cut-to-the-chase method is the primary reason many discovery calls fail. Instead of truly finding out what problems the prospect or his company might have, which the product being offered might solve, reps skip right over the creation of a relationship that might help them eventually make that sale. Chris is convinced that salespeople can actually be coached on where they went wrong during a discovery call and how to do it in a way that works. In this podcast, you can listen to the two questions that Chris begins his own discovery calls with — and then find out what the heck “the dog, the meat, and the chain-link fence” have to do with this subject. Who knew that a discussion about discovery calls could be so insightful and entertaining?

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Getting Prospects from Fear to Commitment

Market Dominance Guys' Guest: Oren Klaff

You’re about to make a cold call, hoping to get a commitment out of your prospect. What are you feeling? A little trepidation, perhaps? As all salespeople know, that’s the fear of rejection. But have you ever considered that your prospect is feeling some fear too? It’s true: most prospective customers feel the fear of having to talk to an invisible stranger. That’s a lousy way to start a conversation with someone you’re wanting a commitment from. So, how do you, an invisible stranger, get your prospect, an unknown person, to go quickly from fear to trust, then from trust to curiosity, and, finally, from curiosity to commitment — all in about a half of a minute? And how do you do it so the call doesn’t end with a disappointing outcome? Chris, Corey, and today’s Market Dominance Guys’ guest, Oren Klaff, managing director of Intersection Capital, tackle this challenge with a discussion about trust and how to manufacture it, especially at the speed and scale necessary for startup founders to glean success — before their new venture runs out of money.

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Your Prospect Adores You! But Will His CFO?


Every single thing that happens in sales is about learning — on both parties’ parts — and this includes presenting and discussing value metrics with prospects and with customers who are up for renewal. What works best? Adopting an attitude of rampant optimism or one of friendly skepticism? Should the value metrics you present be the same, or should they vary when you’re talking with inbound prospects versus outbound prospects? Is it most effective to emphasize only one appealing value, or is it better to trot out several beneficial metrics?


In this third Market Dominance Guys’ conversation between Chris, Corey, and Mike Genstil, co-founder and CEO of VisualizeROI, this trio of experts discusses how to price your company’s offering, how to handle discount requests, and what to do about a prospect’s fixed-budget limitations. Most importantly, they delve into the reality of what happens when you have successfully convinced a prospect of the value of your offering — to the extent that he is now a champion of your product or service — but when he carries your banner back to his company, he is faced with a bunch of skeptics who haven’t had the benefit of hearing your pitch. Since 98.3% of all sales decisions are fought internally, you’ll want to hear the strategy Chris, Corey, and Mike suggest for arming your prospect with the value metrics that will help him win that battle.

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What to Charge for a Trip to the Promised Land

What to charge for a trip to the promised land with Mike Genstil

As a follow-up to the recent Market Dominance Guys’ podcast, “Vanity, Vanity, Thy Name Is Value Metrics,” Chris and Corey continue here with part two of their conversation with Mike Genstil, co-founder and CEO of VisualizeROI. Mike and Chris share their insights into value metrics and how to construct and present statements about value propositions and returns on investment. These market dominance experts explain that it’s all dependent upon the job title of the customer rep being addressed, as well as where in the sales cycle you are with that company. Is risk mitigation the most appropriate metric? Is it perhaps better to talk about productivity gains? Or would a statement regarding cost savings be more enticing as a promised ROI? And, as Corey asks, whose job is it to craft the appropriate statement for the value prop or ROI?

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Can Innovation and a Pandemic Coexist?

Can innovation and a pandemic coexist?

Change is the obvious hallmark of the current pandemic. And, as most of us know, change rewards innovation and punishes those who stand pat on tradition. This is especially true in the winner-takes-all world of sales. Most people believe that true innovation springs from the use of technology. But is innovation mostly about taking a technological product or service and then marketing and promoting it to the stage called “user adoption” — or even to the more desirable stage that we’ll call “user embrace”? Or should innovation be more cultural than technical?

Join Chris as he makes the case for pursuing innovation during the pandemic and talks about the difference between strategy and tactics during this pursuit. Chris is joined by his friend, Gerhard Gschwandtner, founder and CEO of Selling Power, Inc., as they discuss the role of empathy in sales and its importance as a leadership tool.

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Vanity, Vanity, Thy Name is Adoption Metrics

Michael Genstil, VisualizeROI

In the modern SaaS economy, adoption metrics abound. Sure – they measure something that VC investors care about, and sometimes something that product recommenders and even decision-makers want to track. But does adoption speak to business impact?

One thing for sure: when it comes to business impact, adoption metrics are pure vanity. A business doesn’t measure return on investment by asking how much time its employees are spending as “users.” Horror stories abound of products that suck up time due to their own internal inefficiencies, sending employees on wild goose chases to figure out what to put in that so-called “required field,” or how to coax a shiny new SaaS product into spitting out a coherent report on what it did for you — or, more likely, what you did for it. At its worst, a focus on adoption invites corruption, as the SaaS vendor needs to make a claim that their goodness is spreading throughout your organization and the buying committee needs to justify, and feel good about, their purchase.

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Where Did All the Coaching Go? (Long Time Passing)

Where did all the coaching go?

In the last two podcasts, When Operational Excellence Hits a 9-Foot Wall and Myths and Misconceptions of the Cold-Calling World, Chris, Corey, and Valerie Schlitt, CEO and founder of VSA, have been discussing various aspects of striving for operational excellence. In this third and final podcast on the subject, these three sales experts turn to the topic of coaching. Listen to what they have to say about how coaching works best — and the challenge of doing it in today’s work-from-home world.

Valerie explains that what she misses is the way coaching worked before COVID, when she and her team were in the same office, with many of them calling on the same program. And they would sit next to each other, and listen to each other, and hear what went well on each other’s calls, and then copy it. This passive coaching among co-workers isn’t available now. And though active coaching by management isn’t impossible right now, it has to be done in a different way.

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Myths and Misconceptions of the Cold-Calling World

Misconceptions of the Cold-Calling World with Valerie Schlitt

Chris and Corey continue their discussion with Valerie Schlitt, CEO and founder of VSA, which began with the Market Dominance Guys’ podcast, When Operational Excellence Meets a 9-Foot Wall. Making another observation about operational excellence, Chris begins this session with the statement, “A big part of operational excellence is recognizing that you don’t always have the resources that you need to get the job done perfectly — or even well.” Valerie thrives on solving problems just like this one and is adept at addressing problems in unique ways. Together these three sales experts tackle the issues of maintaining operational excellence while running a business — either before or during a pandemic.

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When Operational Excellence Meets a 9-Foot Wall

When Operational Excellence Meets a 9-Foot Wall

Operational excellence is achieved when every member of an organization can see the flow of value to the customer and fix that flow before it breaks down. But as a manager of people, you know that this isn’t an easy goal to achieve — especially if your team members are now working from home instead of working together in one building. As Chris explains in a story about his experience mountain climbing and running up against a 9-foot tall stretch of wall, “We make a great plan — and then we run into that blank wall. The COVID pandemic is an example of that wall.”

In this podcast, Chris and Corey have a conversation with Valerie Schlitt, founder and CEO of VSA, about what to do with the problems this wall has created for her team members and those of her clients. Valerie holds a Wharton MBA and has 19 years of experience directing a great team of her own who use their skills to help VSA’s customers develop their businesses. “Collaborating with people is one of the biggest sources of ways to solve problems,” Valerie explains. But with the work-from-home movement, how can you maintain that same group problem-solving?

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Coaching vs. Evaluating - How Fear Impacts Performance

coaching and evaluation how fear impacts performance

When we’re performing in the presence of someone we know to be more expert than we are, our performance usually suffers. In the world of sales, managers often put this pressure on salespeople, although often unwittingly. They may approach their sales rep with every intention of being a helpful coach, but too often they slip into the role of a critical evaluator instead. And as soon as a salesperson thinks they’re being evaluated, fear sets in — their stomach sinks, their voice tightens up, their intended flow of words gets backed up — and there goes their normal, relaxed performance.

In this podcast, Chris talks with Susan Finch, president of Funnel Radio, on this topic and then segues into the benefits of how a mutually beneficial relationship between members of the company’s team (sales, research, engineering/manufacturing, customer support) creates the best possible means of serving customers. Chris and Susan then discuss how showing appreciation and respect for the behind-the-scenes team members keeps those people from feeling invisible, motivates them to perform better, and to willingly offer support to the people on the front line.

Join Chris and Susan for another relaxed, entertaining, and informative Market Dominance Guys podcast as they explore what works and what doesn’t when managing salespeople and dominating your market.

The complete transcript of this episode is below:


Announcer (00:06):

When we're performing in the presence of someone we know to be more expert than we are, our performance usually suffers. In the world of sales, managers often put this pressure on salespeople, although often unwittingly. They may approach their sales rep with every intention of being a helpful coach, but too often, they slip into the role of a critical evaluator instead, and as soon as the salesperson thinks they're being evaluated, fear sets in, their stomach sinks, their voice tightens up, their intended flow of words gets backed up and there goes their normal, relaxed performance.

I'm Susan Finch, president of Funnel Radio, and in this podcast, I talk with Chris Beall on this topic, and then we segue into the benefits of how a mutually beneficial relationship between members of the company's team, sales, research, engineering, manufacturing, customer support creates the best possible means of serving customers. Chris and I then discuss how showing appreciation and respect for the behind-the-scenes team members keep those people from feeling invisible, motivates them to perform better, and to willingly offer support to the people on the frontline. Join us for this episode of the Market Dominance Guys, Coaching Versus Evaluating: How Fear Impacts Performance.

Chris Beall (01:54):

Sales is a game ultimately of dissonance and irony, ultimately of dissonance and irony. There's very little of it where you get to play it straight up because you're operating in the field of other people's emotions and their factual vulnerability. They are vulnerable to you if they let you begin to pitch them, and so there's resistance, "psychological reactance" is generally what it's called, and they can't help it. Then if you respond to that by being offended that they're rejecting you by raising an objection, you're toast.

Jeb Blount wrote a whole book on this called Objections. Here's the book. I mean, it's a brilliant book. Don't take my synopsis and say, "I've read the book," but here's the book. Inside, we hear objections, which are reasonable things for people to say in their circumstance, as rejection, and rejection is the toughest thing that happens to us because it creates embarrassment for us. How we handle hearing an objection and dealing with our inevitable emotional response internally that it's rejection is the key to handling the hard part of sales, which is what to do when they say no and they don't mean it.

What do you do when they say no, but that's not what they mean, because you can't say, "You didn't mean that"? What do you do? Jeb makes this point, which is you do a thing called "ledging." I'm an old climber, as you know. My game growing up was rock-climbing and mountaineering and a ledge, when I just heard the word for this first time, "ledging," a ledge is a safe place. Ledges are where you sit and belay, they're where you sleep, and they're where you don't need handholds anymore. When you're climbing, sometimes you can go through extended periods of time where one hand or the other must be very active on the rock holding on, or else bad things happen, right? For certain kinds of climbs that can get worse than others. It's always a game where you can't make an awful lot of mistakes. It's kind of a tense game. A ledge is where you can relax and that's his point.

How do you ledge? You just have to have a word or phrase that you say out loud at that point that tells you that you've had the reaction of rejection to an objection so that you can have a little bit of time to regain your equilibrium, assess the situation, categorize the objection, and know what kinds of things you might want to be addressing at that point. My ledge is the word "fantastic," so when somebody calls me and says, "Our number nine production system just went down for the second time this week," I say, "Fantastic," because that feels like rejection by the system to me. It's like, "Oh, man, did it go down? Our users need it. It's down. That's not a good thing." I feel bad on the inside, so I go to my ledge and my ledge is the word "fantastic." It sounds good to me, "fantastic." I love the way it sounds. It's poetic. It's three syllables, it's like a little haiku: "Fantastic!" It's real easy to say with an exclamation point on the end and not be sarcastic.

Susan Finch (05:24):

But that is the key, too: It takes practice.

Chris Beall (05:32):

Yes. Everything takes practice. That takes a lot. You golfers know this, right? The hard thing in golf is not hitting the shot that you know is your weakness when trouble is on the side that you tend to go, so all of us have a tendency to either hit the ball left or hit the ball right. There's nobody who has a tendency to hit it down the middle. That doesn't exist, even the great golfers. "My miss," it's referred to as "my miss." My miss is a hard hook and it goes left.

Lee Trevino said this very well. He said, "You can talk to a slice, but a hook just won't listen." He might've said, "You can talk to a fade," to make it more polite, "and a hook just won't listen." I love that. You can yell at a ball that's going to the right and it'll listen to you because it's not going that hard to the right. But when you hook it, it's coming down. It's not just going to left, it's coming down, right? Well, when trouble's on the left and it's a game situation, so to speak, it's important, it's the club championship, or it's just you're going to break your own record or you care or whatever, that's when the hook comes up for me. That's when it comes out and it's because in my head, I have failed to say, "Fantastic, it's out of bounds to the left. OB to the left. Fantastic." Right, and treat that as a clarifying moment.

Susan Finch (07:01):

On the last episode, Chris and I have been talking about scarcity and abundance and economics. Let's go on with our conversation from last episode and continue it because I think this is the only way for us to break cycles as sales professionals before we really can get started. For those of you that have to sell, but you don't think you're a sales professional, you still need to know how to break these cycles.

Chris Beall (07:26):

Yeah. I mean, everybody has to sell. Everybody has to sell and most people get pretty locked up when they're trying to do it when it counts. Most people are actually pretty good at it when they really believe that the outcome is a good outcome, even if it's just for them. As little kids, we're really good at it. We're really good at whining at mom when we're in the grocery store to ask for the candy bar that we know we're not supposed to have. We've become quite effective little sales monsters at that point, right?

All of us, except for a certain class of person that none of us happen to be, thank God, we get tight when we have to perform in the presence of somebody we know to be more expert than we are, and so when the pressure is on, we might be able to perform, but when the pressure is on and the master is there, it's hard to perform. That's evidence that we have a hard time performing in general anything. If you've learned to juggle three balls and then you're in the presence of somebody who can juggle five, your three-ball juggling goes to hell in a handbasket. That's all there is to it.

I experience this on occasion. COVID has really saved me from it because we live in splendid isolation now, so I have this beautiful little Yamaha electronic piano that is sampled from their big concert grand, so it sounds just like the big concert grand, at least in my mind, and I can sit down and play quite comfortably in the evening and my fiance will listen to me and she'll say she loves it. That's easy. All you have to do to make me into a horrible, halting, unsure piano player would be to have my sister's boyfriend, who is a brilliant pianist and a piano tuner, walk in the room, or just tell me that he's coming to visit, and I will suddenly not know what the major third of an E flat chord is. I'll know it, but I won't be able to execute it. I'll be unsure of myself, and that little feel I have, which is, "Where is that? Oh, that's the one between those two black keys that I feel here with this finger," that feel is going to go away like that.

I think that's what happens when we get tight is we lose access to the feel feedback and it's overwhelmed by this performance expectation feedback. Salespeople often put that on themselves, and worse, sales managers often put it on salespeople by showing up. When they should be in a coaching role, they're in an evaluation role. If you want to ruin somebody's performance, and especially in something athletic like sales, all you have to do is make it clear that you're evaluating their performance while they're trying to perform and you will guarantee the outcome that you already knew was going to happen. That's why it's a self-fulfilling prophecy of scarcity.

Getting over that is hard, and one way to do it organizationally, and I'm a big believer when you can do something organizationally if you have the money for the extra person, or you can figure out how to allocate, go with a part-time person or whatever in a role, do it rather than doing it through personal transformation because personal transformation is long, it's expensive, and your overhead is burning a hole in your pocket and your company.

For instance, an example is the difference between managing and coaching. In the NFL, we manage out of the front office, there's a person called a "general manager." They choose the players. The coach has input, but the general manager is responsible for making sure the right players are hired to be on the team and whether they're fired or not is their choice. The coach decides whether to play them or not. That's a different thing. The coach also trains them, teaches them, helps them, gets inside their head, understands when their problem is a psychological problem or physical problem, does all that. But the coach doesn't hire and fire. They have some influence on that, but they don't actually do that.

In sales, which is more athletically demanding than NFL football by far, we make a mistake when we coach out of the leader's position, when we're confusing the person we're coaching with, whether we're coaching them or evaluating them because as soon as we're evaluating them, we're ruining their performance, they tighten up, and in sales, when you tighten up, you're toast. You're just toast when you tighten up. The scarcity mindset, it's something that we tend to say we must address it within the individual by fixing their mindset. We can help with that. We can encourage it. We can provide. Go to Gerhard Gschwandtner's Peak Performance Mindset Retreat and jump out of an airplane, drive that Ferrari. Now, have somebody help you understand where your beliefs come from so someday you might be able to do something about them.

But we can also do it organizationally, and sales is a team game, even when it's played alone. That's something that I think we often forget because sales in history was done like this: "Here's your territory. Go get them, tiger." That's it. That was sales management forever and ever and the salesperson was a business person who owned a territory and they kept that territory. They bought that territory by making their quota and then the territory itself had an increasing value by increasing the quota. It was actually pretty simple, right? Asset must increase in value to be worth the investment. The way it increases in value was we keep raising the quota. The salesperson who wants to keep buying that territory keeps buying it by hitting that quota. That's the old model. That's not the new model.

Software ate the world. There is no inventory anymore to be disposed of, of significance. There are engagements, there's helping, there's this whole new world where there's no inventory, so sales immediately became a team game, and it's hard for folks to recognize that. The most important team relationship is between the player and the coach, but the coach is best, I won't say only, but is best a coach without hiring or firing authority and kind of keeping out of that, kind of keeping out of it. Let the facts speak for themselves, including the performance facts, the recordings, all that kind of stuff, but let the coach just be there to help performance, help you get better.

Susan Finch (14:14):

What about the other players, though? How do they factor in? To the individual performance of one salesperson, you're saying the team is a big thing, it isn't just the coach.

Chris Beall (14:24):

No, I mean, it's a lot. There's a lot of players on the team. There's whoever is the expert on the product. How do they interact with the salesperson so the salesperson is knowledgeable about the things that are worth being knowledgeable about and confident in the product's ability to carry those out for the right prospect?

Chris Beall (15:30):

How does that happen? Product knowledge is inferior to product confidence, so how does that happen? That needs to happen in the relationship between the product team and the salespeople, so if the product team is very engineering-focused/oriented, they're engineers, they tend to see salespeople as these inferior beings who aren't smart enough to build products, and therefore, they talk down to them. Well, when you talk down to a salesperson about a product, you actually reduce their confidence in their ability to represent the product correctly, so you're actually hurting yourself when you do this. Those are key members of the team.

Support is key members of the team. Things go bad. Things are going to go bad. In the modern world, everything is support-oriented and having a relationship between support and sales that is supportive and where sales is not using support as an excuse for future failure. That's a two-way street because sales really owes support their support and support needs to be thinking, "Hmm. Instead of just running the regular book here, is this a case where I could take the extra minute and inform the salesperson responsible for this account what I'm doing and get a little guidance about the business context?" Maybe there is no renewal immediately coming up, but there might be a renewal discussion that's happening because of an upsell opportunity. You wouldn't know that as the support person. You'll find it out if you ask the salesperson, "Is there some nice to be thinking about before I do this?" Because I could support like this the regular way, or I could do the extra effort and get in a screen-share and actually help them. It'll take a little bit more time. Is this person really important to you, o salesperson?

It's a team game on the support dimension. It's certainly a team game on the information dimension. You're getting information about who to go and call on. But by the way, I highly recommend that the information team, the data team be separate. Why? That's actually for a different reason. It feels bad to do work you can't do very well and it reduces your confidence and most don't do data work very well because their brains are not organized for data work, so they don't see it. They don't see the data at all, or it's hard for them to see. The same thing with writing. Most salespeople were not the person who in the English class raised their hand and was the best writer in class, so support in these areas for different elements of the job let the salesperson be free to execute.

Susan Finch (18:17):

I agree. I can tell a difference within a minute when I call a support team that is in the position of being the punching bag and when you call the support team that you know they have this level of confidence that, "No, we're the ones that keep everybody happy. We're the ones that bring back more business. We're the ones that hold this all together," and whether it's true or not, they feel it, and it comes through to where I know I can relax because they're handling this for me, they'll solve my problem, which builds my confidence in the company overall to trust the salesperson the next time they suggest something to me.

Chris Beall (18:52):

Yes, and as management, we need to be careful about what we celebrate. Corey wrote a brilliant piece recently about trying to train himself away from celebrating luck, because after all, if something happens by luck, you're not really looking to repeat the run-up to that. That's just depending on luck, right? If hope is not a strategy, luck really sucks as a strategy, right? Rely on luck, ROL. I don't think so, so let's keep it more in the ROI, a little bit earlier in the alphabet, right?

It's an issue there, but there's another issue, which is the issue of celebration, so when a deal gets done and everybody can see it, at our company, everybody can see it because it's a DocuSign that goes around and it's been signed and then it gets posted and everybody can see it. We're virtual, so we don't have a bell to ring, and it could be in the middle of the night somewhere, right? We could do a deal in the evening here and in the UK, it's middle of the night. I'm not going to have Jerry Hill wake up to some idiot bell that wakes him up, right?

But we even have a tendency as a company, which I try to work against every day, to celebrate the salesperson: "Wow! Great deal, Jerry. Fabulous that you brought that one across the line." Well, what about customer success who ran the test drive? What about my research team, Jaidev Anand, who put together the fabulous list that was used in that test drive, because that was one where they needed data? What about the support staff that took a situation where four people showed up late for the test drive that we didn't even know about and within five minutes they were administered into the system, blowing the minds of whoever it is?

I can think of a case where actually the team from the big OEM showed up not intending to use ConnectAndSell at a test drive of their biggest reseller and they showed up and they watched what was going on, and this is a big OEM. We would all recognize this company. Very, very big. The leader of that group said, "What is this?" and the leader of the reseller said, "Well, this is ConnectAndSell. We're testing it today. It's called an 'intensive test drive.'" There was some listening that went on for three or four minutes and then the question, "Can we join in?"

Well, gosh, it was seven people and we didn't know who they were and the lists had already been divided up among everybody so there was no extra data. All the ice cream was gone. You'd scoop all you want, but there was none left in there. I asked our head of customer success to see if we could accommodate and he never says no to anything that's doable, but even he hesitated just for a moment, and then jumped in and I put it on the clock. Within seven minutes, everybody on that team was administered into the system, they had data to call on, and they were trained. That was better than the test drive, even though it was a different team and they weren't going to buy in the whole bit, that was better than it going well.

Who deserves that deal, which has turned into a fabulous relationship for both ConnectAndSell and for that customer? Well, it's not the rep. I'm the rep, I think. No, I think Jonti McLaren is officially the rep, but I was the one on the ground there that day. The tendency to celebrate the hero who was in the front without extending that celebration by name, not in some general way, but this person, this person, this person, if possible, that's a bad tendency, and it causes a feeling of less abundance among the people who are behind the scenes. Then it's harder for them to execute because they have to overcome the emotional barrier of being behind the scenes, even though by personality, they probably prefer to be behind the scenes, right, they still want recognition. Everybody wants recognition.

Susan Finch (23:09):

It's a little different than the embarrassment thing that we talked about in the previous episode. You don't forget those feelings, but you also don't forget the feeling of being invisible.

Chris Beall (23:20):

Yeah. Yeah.

Susan Finch (23:22):

Nobody wants to be invisible. Even if you want to be subtle behind the scenes, you still want to be seen a little bit.

Chris Beall (23:29):

Yeah. This is one of the main reasons that I suggest that CEOs sell, but also that they get involved in product at a detailed level. Not so much that they're going to make a great contribution. Maybe they are a product person. I mean, that's my background. I'm a product person, engineer, and all that kind of stuff, so it's kind of legit when I do it, but that's not the only reason I do it. The other reason is the people on the front lines on product have a scary job, the scariest job, which is they do work that nobody knows it can be done or not and they're treated as though they're doing work that's simply a matter of doing the work.

Scarcity, Abundance, and the Biggest Sin in Sales

Scarcity, Abundance, and the Biggest Sin in Sales

The pandemic has certainly shown the general public that scarcity or abundance of products can have an effect on people’s emotions. Scarcity increases desire — whether you desperately need the product or not. Abundance decreases desire, because there’s plenty of what you might need in the future. This is true for the sales process too. When you know that you’re going to have another conversation with a prospect, then you can relax during the initial conversation. The tension will disappear from your voice, because you’re not pushing for the sale: you know you have another chance at a future date, and you can relax while you gather information and begin establishing trust with your prospect. There’s no need to hang on and desperately keep the call going; you set up an appointment for the next conversation, and then you end the call. In other words, you “make yourself scarce.” And right there, you’ve introduced the element of scarcity to your prospect’s emotions and, in doing so, increased their desire for more information about what your company offers.

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Enslaved by Preconceptions? Shoshin Can Set You Free!

Enslaved by Preconceptions? Shoshin Can Set You Free!

Can your prospects smell your “commission breath”? Is your eagerness to set the appointment or reach for the deal keeping you from gleaning the information you need from your conversations with prospects?

There is a danger that comes with expertise. When you are a true beginner, your mind is empty and open. You are willing to learn and consider all pieces of information. As you develop expertise, however, your mind naturally becomes more closed. As a salesperson, you might have a preconceived notion that you know where a cold call is heading. Rejectionville again! And this makes you less open to discovering new information, less likely to hear your prospect’s confession about his business or job or a problem you might solve. Your expectations are not immediately met, and you get that sense of doom that this call is a waste of your time. What can save you from that out-on-a-ledge, sales-related fear of impending doom? Shoshin, a Zen Buddhism concept that means “beginner’s mind.” Chris, Corey, and Jake Housdon discuss how employing the curiosity mindset of Shoshin (“I know nothing. Tell me about your experience.”) allows you to take ahold of your emotions, lead your prospect back into having a conversation, and put you back on the road to discovery.

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The Theory of Constraints - Abandon or Persuade


The theory of constraints dominates the world of business, and yet it tends to be ignored by almost everybody in business for a pretty simple reason: it's politically unpalatable. The theory of constraints says your business is a system, and every system has one and only one constraint.

And that's the only thing you should be working on right now: understanding that constraint, characterizing it, coming up with an investment thesis, making the investment, or observing the results of the investment. The investment is something like better cycle time, increased throughput, more units that are doing the work, or better quality. Those who employ this practice will dominate markets.

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Marketing Language Kills Sales Conversations

Marketing Language Kills Sales Conversations

How long will it take to get the meeting? You have three steps first:

1. Make the list. And review that list and eliminate the dumb titles. Chris is a fan of Zoominfo.

2. Write the messaging. Remember, one turn of phrase can kill the meeting. Marketing language kills a sales call. Subtle nuances make or break the call.

3. Talk to people in that market, those that are intrigued enough to hear what we have to say. Who does the talking? Find and hire the ASKERS.

Tune in for this short episode of Market Dominance Guys: Change the Message or Change the List

Modern Sales is a Collaborative Exercise in Search.

Sales is a Collaborative Exercise in Search

The sales lead discernment process is similar to search results. The ones that come up on the first page are the ones you interact with. It's like a discovery call.  A discovery call's purpose isn't to say, "I'm going to buy." One of the biggest mistakes sales trainers make is relying on role-playing as the method to gain confidence. Role-playing is not designed to get you calm and confident. It's a "gotcha" set up. Rehearsal and practice are a better training method to allow the salespeople to get comfortable enough they don't have to think about how they might fail. You need to have it be a reflex to get to the underlying emotion. The underlying emotion that needs to come through is curiosity.

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It’s the CEO’s Job to Feel the Ice Rather than Harpoon the Whale

Feel the ice rather than trying to harpoon the whale.

CEOs are allowed to have weird thoughts and consider odd possibilities. You need input from the market you don't have yet. This is why a CEO needs to be selling to understand what is actually happening. Their job is to feel the ice rather than just sending your reps to drive the road.

Put yourself in there as CEO, don't absorb the friction, find the root cause. The marketplace is always changing. CEOs love to harpoon a whale, but they need to experience every aspect of a sale. They need to be in the mix and feel what is behind the numbers. Listen to this episode of Market Dominance Guys, It's the CEO's Job to Feel the Ice Rather than Harpoon the Whale.

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The We’re Set Objection and Why Introverts Make the Best Salespeople.

Introverts make the best introverts

Marketing can step in and help sales overcome it.

1. Beginning: listen to discovery conversations.

2. Middle: look at support tickets to see the unvarnished truth.

3. End: work on getting the pipeline to be seen as an asset, it belongs on the balance sheet. Ask to be measured on the value we are contributing to help steer my efforts based on results that are being produced.

1. I want to know upfront what's going on - attribution

2. in the middle - discovery

3. at the end - support tickets and we should want to know this first hand.

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91% of All Marketing Dollars are a Waste.

Sales and Marketing Alignment is a Myth - thank goodness.

Only 9% of all MQ's (marketing qualified leads) every result in a conversation. Worse than that, you have now stimulated your target audience to explore and investigate your competition. 91% of all marketing dollars are a waste. This is because Sales only contacts a prospect two times, rather than the 6 times requested or required.  That leaves 91% for your competitors to speak to. But the good news is, everyone else is doing the same thing. It may all work out.

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We Need to do Together Before We Partner Together.

Safoian episode 2


Part 2 of the interview with SADA CEO, Tony Safoian. Questions answered include How is Google going to support my enterprise business better than its competitors. Needs have changed, demand for "bat phone" support is now part of any proposal. Every customer is different in their behavior than they were four months ago. If you're an organization that doesn't know how to meet your customer where they are now, your organization is dead. 

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Manufacture Trust at Scale and Pace to Grow Exponentially

Tony Safoian CEO SADA is Corey & Chris' guest on Market Dominance Guys


The rate of growth SADA has experienced gives them credibility when their CEO, Tony Safoian explains that in order to scale you have to manufacture trust at pace. 

SADA does one thing exceptionally well, they transform companies into a cloud solution partnering with Google. Yes, that's paraphrasing, but as a Google Cloud Premier Partner, SADA Systems has gained global accolades as an exceptional service provider with proven expertise in enterprise consulting, cloud platform migration, custom application development, managed services, user adoption, and change management. They do what they do REALLY well. They do it so well that ConnectAndSell turned to them to move from AWS to a better solution on the Google platform.


Learn from Tony in this episode of Market Dominance Guys, then join us for the next episode where Corey and Chris continue the conversation.


The complete transcript of this episode is below:

Corey Frank (00:34):

So welcome everybody to another episode of the Market Dominance Guys with your host, Corey Frank, and with me, as always is the Sage of Sales, Chris Beall. And Chris, you know that we don't do this often, but when we do, it's usually because we run out of things to talk about. No, it's usually because we have a interesting, compelling, face melting guests that usually has something to offer to the community, which is growing every day. And today we have the CEO of SADA, Tony Safoian. Tony, did I pronounced that correctly.

Tony Safoian (01:09):

Perfectly, Corey.

Corey Frank (01:11):

Great. Tony, as the CEO of SADA is able to lasso all the mystery and complexity and value of the Cloud, where all the bags of money and blood live in a world without... and we're all laughing, we'll talk about the key word that we use there in a minute. But Tony runs one of the top Cloud consultancy service providers in the world. In fact, I think, Tony, wasn't it a year or two ago that you were Google's Top Cloud Partner of the Year. I think it was, so as modest as I'm sure you are, Chris and I, like to get the accolades out of the way at the top. So I think Chris, turn it over to you, how did you meet Tony and why, because we talk about a lot of folks we come in contact with in our world, that Tony should be in the hot seat for the Market Dominance Guys today?

Chris Beall (02:06):

Well, I just got lucky. I'm a customer of SADAs, made a big decision to move from AWS to Google Cloud, based on the fact that the Google Cloud folks will actually join in with us and help with the marketing, and ultimately, maybe, even the co-selling of our product, which is something we didn't see out of the other guys. And it provided another bunch of wonderful things, too, cost savings and superior technologies, superior speed. You know how speed centric we are, we're really speed centric. So we had a great experience working with SADA, effectively, as the folks who brought us into Google Cloud. So they were our vehicles, so to speak, to get there and get there successfully, and very quickly. We moved 14 production systems over there in a matter of a few weeks. And then the great-great insane, good fortune of getting to go down to Austin and participate in a test drive of ConnectAndSell with Tony's team.

And I can only report, it was a riot. It was really fun. They killed it. There were dead bodies everywhere. Talk about blood. There was blood on the floor, it was flowing. They actually, unlike test drives, they didn't just do it, but they made money to do it, I believe.

Corey Frank (02:06):


Chris Beall (03:22):

I'll have to leave it to Tony to say if they really made money doing it. And so now we're each other's customers. And then he kindly invited me onto his podcast, Cloud N Clear, and we had a lot of fun there. And so I got to tell all my stories there, but Tony didn't-

Corey Frank (03:35):

Oh, love it [crosstalk 00:03:35]-

Chris Beall (03:35):

... get to tell all his story. So now it's your turn, Tony, how did we get into this craziness? Tell us [crosstalk 00:03:42]-

Tony Safoian (03:43):

I don't know. I love the hot seat, that's all I got to say. Thank you for inviting me.

Chris Beall (03:47):

We're lucky. We're lucky to have you.

Corey Frank (03:49):

And I'm curious, Tony, when you saw a weapon like ConnectAndSell in the test drive, I always like to get into the blood and guts and of the dials and the epiphany and the exponential amazement that happens as it creeps across the floor, as people realize you can talk to more than one person an hour or so. So that was kind of where the test drive was, and what are seeing thus far? And in a business perspective, I'm just always curious to see a little bit of Inside Baseball of how you've been able to adapt to this new type of a weapon that you have on board?

Tony Safoian (04:23):

So to be able to independently source pipeline in the Google cloud ecosystem is not a trivial task. We've been partnering with Google for 14 years, now, for many of those years, us and the rest of the Google ecosystem was completely dependent on the Google sales organization to introduce them to customers. And we knew this was a risk. We knew that it was, maybe us not being the best possible partner in the world, meaning delivering value at that part of the value chain at the pipeline side. So a few years ago, we started doing marketing pretty well and developed some inside sales capacity capability, but 12 months ago or so, we had the desire, 10X that impact. We went out on this journey to build the most prolific, active, successful, most active inside sales dedicated organization, really, for the first time.

And we found this gentlemen, Billy France, who is well known by Chris, to say the least, he has this incredible team has built from scratch 15, 20 folks. And they use a lot of traditional tools and methodologies, and they were very, very good at it. And some of it is a wide net and other part of their approach is very, very targeted. And in a short amount of time, we started breaking all sorts of records. Nobody at Google in the ecosystem had sourced the amount of pipeline, the number of opportunities. And these are very well vetted, they have to be submitted into a platform that Google has to approve and the field has to okay, and validate that, yes, this is a new opportunity. Yes, it's qualified.

So there's a lot of rigor behind it. So the pressure I was putting on Billy was immense, and of course he was delivering, and Matthew on his team, just a great add to his leadership structure and all of that. But they were seeking the best tools in the business, period, because these days it's important to be multichannel. It's important to build great content and awareness, but nothing is as powerful as the phone call. And there just has never been a very efficient way to do this, especially now when people don't pick up the phone. I don't think I have a phone. Do you pick up the phone? I generally don't pick up the phone.

So when this concept of this platform, which on the surface is like, well, this is not inexpensive, in nominal terms, this is an enterprise class investment. When the premise behind the technology was revealed and Billy was so gung-ho, I mean, he was so gung-ho, he was like, "We have to do this." Matthew's like, "We have to do this. It's game-changing." I was like, "Really? It's 2020, what do you mean game-changing? You mean there's something that hasn't been done? How's it possible? Enterprise sales have been around forever."

And then, of course, I got to know Chris better, and he explained even farther, the genesis of the platform. I know that at that test drive that we did, and by the way, it was in Austin, near the Google offices, we had Google folks come in from the Cloud organization, field sales managers, and sellers kind of joined in, like, what is this spectacle that is about to happen? I mean, it was an unbelievable experience for that team. They felt super human. They felt emboldened. They felt powerful, productive, and they just could not believe the efficiency behind it. And Chris and I talked about this on my podcast, but the adrenaline rush, man, the adrenaline rush, somebody picking up that phone, and you have a few seconds to ensure that they stay right?

Corey Frank (07:54):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tony Safoian (07:55):

It's almost like the ROS form of sales, execution ability, which so many of us have forgotten, but actually, that's how I cut my teeth at a dotcom in the late '90s, early 2000s. I went from being extremely fearful of the phone to loving it in the early days, and a platform like ConnectAndSell, that took a lot of that efficiency out, the ROI is just... it was unbelievable. So of course, we're a big customer ConnectAndSell, ConnectAndSell is a big customer of ours and Google Cloud. And I look at people like you, Corey and Chris, and I'm grateful that this level of thought leadership exists and is happening, and it's in the ether and we're talking about it. Because I think without pipeline, none of us could be in business, that's where it all starts.

Corey Frank (08:41):

Without pipeline and without trust-based conversations. Chris, I think it's worth repeating, I know Tony, you're a believer just like I am, but Chris, the number of bits in a phone call versus everybody talks about cold calling is dead. How many episodes have we dedicated to that? How many LinkedIn posts, Tony, do you see, cold calling is dead? I think there was another rash of them this particular week of this insanity. But when it comes to trust-based conversations, Chris, I always try to poke the bear and get you to riff and wax loquacious here about the value of a phone call versus a simple email, just from a scientific, from a bits per second perspective. So, maybe that would be helpful for the audience, setting the stage, and since you already have two believers in me and Tony, here on the line, too.

Chris Beall (09:24):

They got to access all of their company's information, which has a bunch of bits, and they have to do it with a bunch of computer programs, which has another bunch of bits, and they got to do it without having a breakdown in all that happening. Well, if all the bits are behind a wall, isn't it funny that we call those firewalls? Like, what's trying to get at my bits is a fire that's going to burn down the house. It kind of is though, if you just let anybody, in bad things happen. But when you keep everybody out, bad things happen. And you get the bits outside in a safe place, where they're accessible by everybody, including folks working from home, the bits can participate in saving the economy.

And by the way, this is something I truly believe has happened. I think it's happening right now. I think it's not recognized widely that it's happening, and companies that Tony's team is working with, are kind of getting it. Tony told me the other day, those who didn't move to the Cloud are kind of wishing that they had, right?

Tony Safoian (09:24):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Chris Beall (10:20):

So it's always about [crosstalk 00:10:22]-

Tony Safoian (10:22):

Big time.

Chris Beall (10:23):

... here's the simple info, an email fully read email, carefully, read, somebody's thinking about it while they're reading it, has about 5,000 bits of information on it. That is one quarter of one second of a live human conversation on the phone, quarter of a second is 5,000 bits, and it takes a lot of bits, not to get somebody to know what you know, but to believe that you care enough about them, that they're going to trust you with their secrets. And that's what sales is all about, is getting somebody to trust you with their secrets, because their secrets are pain, and nobody wants to share their pain with the world.

So it's the same thing as the Cloud. The Cloud itself, I believe, has saved the economy. I think it should get the Nobel Peace Prize, the Nobel Prize for Economics. The Cloud should be Man of the Year on Time Magazine, if the had magazines, but [crosstalk 00:11:20]-

Tony Safoian (10:23):


Chris Beall (11:19):

... now. The Cloud should be all those things. And the fact is the human voice is the one thing that carries enough information, I'll call it, in the other Cloud, because the long distance phone calling was the original Cloud. It was the Cloud that made the latter part of the 20th century work, where we could actually talk to people far away and do business with them, because they could trust us. So the long distance phone call was the second Cloud. The first Cloud was the telegraph, and then came along to the phone, which wasn't a Cloud, because you were always behind the firewall of being just local phone calls.

And then it got released, and became the Cloud. And then that Cloud contracted inside of voicemail, 2003, '04, '04, and has had a hard time getting out, that's our job. But then Google, and there are other folks that they're similar to, provided sort of the next generation, except it was the long distance phone call for every application, every system, every archive who worked together with the human beings all over the earth, in an unlimited way. And it's saved the economy, it literally has. And I think we should like do this.

Tony Safoian (12:30):

Cannot disagree. Cannot disagree. I think it's quite remarkable.

Chris Beall (12:36):

I mean, to me, Tony, you guys are on a mission that is interesting, because at one level is so nuts and bolts, it's so... I mean talk about workloads, a workload is a workload is a workload is not a workload. It's not trivial stuff. Everything in the world of software and everything in the world of hardware as a result, is tangled up together. They don't call it spaghetti code for nothing.

Tony Safoian (13:01):

That's right.

Chris Beall (13:02):

It's all tangled up and you have to help folks get that stuff up from where it is, where it's all stuck and glued into all these different systems, and nobody even remembers how they're tangled up, and help that come out and move to a place where it's all accessible by people like me, working from home. What was the key? Why are you guys so good at it? Because it's one of the hardest things in the world. Selling it is one thing, but you guys have to actually do it. Why did you embark on such a crazy adventure?

Tony Safoian (14:30):

Part of it is, I think, just being on the right side of history for a long period of time. As you both know, selling and delivering something you don't believe in is a very hard endeavor. So when the Cloud started to become a thing in the mid-2000s, and we had a very on-premise related view of the world, like everyone else did, when a thought started to come together, it wasn't a debate for us, whether or not that's where it's all going to end up eventually.

So just creating a culture around that journey started with email, it was the first thing we worked on. 2006, '07, '08, '09, then went to maps and geolocation services, then enterprise search, and then voice link to the Cloud. It was like, "Look, this is going to the Cloud." And then on-premise, custom applications and the data center was next, and there's four trillion dollars worth of this stuff out there, in the old paradigm, and I think, if you get the general methodology of what the journey to the Cloud looks like, yes, it's in part technical, but a lot of it is cultural.

So if you get the cultural piece, right, like, yes, this is a difficult decision for customers to make. It is something that engineers that work at our customers are either afraid of or unaccustomed to. And so, that's part of the work streams. It's not just convincing the CIO or the CTO or VP of Engineering that this is a good idea, but we need these engineers to come along.

In the early days, when we used to migrate email, the biggest barrier was, the team that ran the email backup exchange administrators were like, "We don't want to move to the Cloud. Our whole job is defined by this box that's sitting here." So just 100X that, and that's sort of the modern data center migration conversation. Engineers are an interesting bunch to recruit, to nurture, to retain, to motivate. They want to do cool stuff and they want to work with other exceptional engineers. So bringing in, just over a year ago, now, the best CT on the planet we could find, which is the gentleman who ran the global solutions architect team at Google for five years, and he did that also at AWS, four years prior to that, was a huge step forward for us, in terms of engineering culture within SADA.

And of course, now, other top engineers that are interested in this space, just want to work in that orbit, so recruiting engineers actually has never been easier for SADA. But even prior to that, we understood that engineers are generally not like salespeople at all, and they're not like a lot of other folks within any companies, they're not coin operated. You can't say, "I'll pay you more, if you move faster." Or, "I'll pay more, if you stay." That's actually almost irrelevant to most engineers, it's, there's a hygiene factor of comp and benefits and all that stuff, but they want to work around other engineers they admire for their engineering ability and acumen and experience and contribution to open source and other things that engineers kind of measure each other by, but they also want to do meaningful work at the edge of technology innovation.

So that's why, when we go into a typical customer who has engineers, and let's say this customer is not very tech forward, those engineers are bored. They've gone in to maintenance mode. Maybe, they're building some cool things. But our approach is, well, our engineers are on the outside, we see hundreds of environments, tackle the most complex challenges, so we come in with a different perspective of experience. But where the SADA approach in the market is different is that we compete in the enterprise at a space that's been traditionally dominated by the global systems integrators and the outsourcers. And the way they like to engage with customers is they want to come in and replace those people. They want you to outsource this thing to them.

And we come in with an orientation of, I don't have a 100 people I can put on staff there for three years, I have four ninjas, who are the or the best in what they do, with project management and program management, and then all these other folks, they're going to come in, help you get started on this journey, lay the critical foundation of security and architecture and make sure it's all done right, and then spend a lot of time on the enablement piece, so that your engineers, which they will surprise you, are going to get enabled to take you most of the rest of the way.

And I think customers really resonates to that. Engineers that we've ended up having to work with at our customer sites, love the opportunity to go get certified and learn big query or Kubernetes or whatever it is, Anthos. And then our engineers go in and they see the direct impact on those people's lives, and also the company that we just helped transform, and it just fills them with tons of fulfillment and meaning in the work. And I think that's where we have to continue to win as an organization. We have to have a tremendous amount of exceptional engineers.

Because the selling side, I love how you always frame it, which is value at every interaction. And if your intent is pure, and it is, you're there to help. In aggregate, there's actually unlimited demand for the work that the Cloud providers do, and then the partners do. In fact, globally, the demand greatly exceeds the supply of all the engineers in the world and all the partners like SADA that could do this work. So having that meaningful conversation after you get good at it, that's not going to be, ultimately, the limiting factor in a customer's journey. It's going to be other things like their trust, do they trust you? Can you really save them money? Are you on their side? Are you going to be there for the next five to 10 years to support them in this path? And that trust really starts with that first phone call.

Chris Beall (20:22):

That's fascinating. This whole question of culture is something that's discussed a lot. The culture and its role in digital transformation of all kinds as much discussed here at the dinner table. This is what we talk about. Now, my fiance's talk that she gives publicly is about how, in her journey of trying to figure out what digital transformation is really about, what are the constraints, what she discovered the constraint is always culture. I mean, enabling technology, so to speak, is always culture and cultural change.

It's fascinating to me that you've delved into engineering culture, both as a supplier of engineering culture and a consumer of it in a funny way. That is, you consume your customer's engineering culture as an input to your process. It's fascinating. I've never heard it described like that before. As an old, I don't know if I'm an engineer, I'm one of those guys who's written more than a million lines of code, and I still don't think I ever became an engineer. I don't know how that happens, but it does sometimes happen in the world. I don't think I ever had that mindset completely. But that one piece that you talk about, which is what Deming used to talk about, people work for pride of workmanship, not for cash compensation or anything else. And even sales people do. Believe it or not, sales... I mean, we all have to know this right, really, sales people who say they're coin-operated, I'm sure, never are. They just never are. They're just trying to hide behind that shield, so that they don't have to be accountable for what they would prefer not to be accountable.

Tony Safoian (22:00):

So they don't have to update the CRM system.

Chris Beall (22:00):


Corey Frank (22:00):

That's true. Yep, that's right.

Chris Beall (22:06):

Which would keep them from having to do anyway, so that's all right. That's quite something. So where in that process, you described where you got to, and the big draw of the Cloud is out there. I had the same experience, I think, in 1983, when I knew that Unix was going to take over the commercial computing world. And I quit my job, and I did my first startup, which was a Unix-based ERP system written from scratch.

Tony Safoian (22:31):


Chris Beall (22:31):

So that was like, it was [crosstalk 00:22:32]-

Tony Safoian (22:33):

That not ambition at all Chris. That's not ambition.

Chris Beall (22:35):

I had an orange crate to put on, so it was quite comfortable. At little terminals banging away, we built our own relational database management system from scratch, from the ground up, from bits. And went after that, but why? Because you didn't have to be a genius to figure out that that glow in the East that you can't read by yet is eventually going to bake the landscape. Whatever that thing is, it's got to be really bright to be glowing that much before it gets up over the horizon. And the Cloud must have felt like that to you, way back in the early 2000s. As long as you don't go out of business and you agree to operate internally by principles that are sufficiently deep, that you're not going to end up having no keel and being blown every which way, you sort of can't lose. Now, you guys have gone way beyond can't lose, sort of gone into the magic place. Is that how you felt? Or were there moments along the journey when it's like, yeah, I get that we can't lose, but we could lose.

Tony Safoian (23:40):

I think it's healthy to operate in this infinite game mindset, which Simon Sinek talks about, and I'm a huge fan of his. We're just sort of visitors into this time and place of enterprise software sales or sales or technology, whatever you call this space. And we're players in the game, and if you think in infinite terms, it's not a game that has a finite end or some kind of scoreboard that you can point to at the end of a quarter or a half or the season, and say we won or lost, per se. So I think with this mindset, that, look, we're blessed and we know we're blessed, and we're so fortunate to be in an environment that's growing, in a market is growing 50, 60%, anyway, that has unlimited demand, essentially. We're on the right side of history and we have a little bit of a headstart, that we really just only have to focus on getting incrementally better every day.

If we get incrementally better every day in the areas that become clear to us by virtue of enough customer conversations or internal debates or feedback and input from Google, et cetera, we shouldn't really ever have to exit the game. And that's actually, when you lose an infinite game, the closest definition to losing a game like this is exiting the game. Simon Sinek makes a lot of references to, I don't love war analogies, but he calls it like the Vietnam War, or let's say the Cold War. The biggest mistake that the United States made, when the Berlin Wall fell down, is thinking that they won the Cold War. It never stopped. So as Corey said, it's almost like, so what that we want the Global Seller of the Year award two years in a row, it's not like game over. It's actually so early in this transformation journey that I don't know if we can win because it's an infinite game, but we certainly can mess up.

And if we do, shame on us, because I feel like most of the destiny is clearly in our hands. And I think a lot of that has to do with a lot of humility and self-awareness, but certainly a focus on just customer obsession, a focus on incremental improvement, reinvestment, which a lot of business founders, especially bootstrap business founders or others, forget. I think the part that we're well beyond, as you're defining it, is we're well beyond the lifestyle business. It's no longer about, what's in it for me. This is like, we have this amazing opportunity to make something big in a way that's never been done before, and, boy, can we impact thousands of lives and hundreds of companies, if we do it right.

Corey Frank (26:19):

Well, I think if you look at where the Cloud is, is that it's maybe started out where it's not, like you say, "I don't believe in gravity." Well, because gravity believes in you, right?

Tony Safoian (26:31):


Corey Frank (26:31):

You could say, "Well, I don't believe in taking my servers and moving them out into the Cloud, because of extra security or why, et cetera." Well, the Cloud believes in you and it's going to zap you up. So how much, Tony, would you say now versus early on versus today, you were probably doing a lot of educational advocacy, educational missionary work, and they were maybe crying and screaming to move versus today, you may have more of, "Hey, here's my specs I need in order to move"? and you've probably seen that on an X and Y axis, probably, move a little bit less, but nevertheless, I know a lot of the fun and the culture, especially what you're seeing in the engineers, is still in the educational advocacy, the thought leadership that a company like SADA plays.

So how do you kind of balance that, where you have kind of the laggards who are coming, but you still have the cool kids who are the early adopters, who are your core clients, and constituency at SADA that want you to say, "Okay, what's next, Tony? What's next? What's next?" And to balance those two on the curve from the late adopters to the visionaries has got to be a challenge.

Tony Safoian (27:35):

It's a challenge, and the work there is changing, but Corey, we're very accustomed to working in a environment where we knew and had complete conviction on what the right destination was going to be. But we've operated in a period of some level of doubt for at least 15 years. So in the beginning, to your point, mid to late 2000s, it was, you were selling the customer on the premise of Cloud. You were trying to convince them that cloud was not a fad, that it was here to stay. And back then with email, in higher education, if you believed in Cloud, the answer was Google, because they were the only ones doing it. So it wasn't like... We weren't so much selling Gmail to universities, we were just convincing them this it's not a fad. And then, Microsoft got their acts together in the Cloud, then we have these two disparate businesses, and there was still a lot of like, "Well, which one's better than that?" Or, "When do I make this migration?"

But in the early days of partnering with Google, you can imagine, that that was not, that Cloud was real, because, okay, fine. Amazon proved Cloud was real. Salesforce proved Cloud is real. And now, even we believe in Cloud now, but is Google really cloud? Are they serious about the enterprise, because they're really an ads business? We've dealt with that for many, many, many years, and in the last, certainly two years with Thomas Kurian coming on board, and Rob Enslins, Kirsten Kliphouse, and Janet Kennedy here in North America. I don't think... Really, since Diane Greene arrived and consolidated things and built this great 13,000 employee organization within Google, that was the Cloud, we haven't gotten that objection so much anymore. But now the conversation is, okay, we know the Cloud is real and Google is serious, but Google is number three.

And we're like, yes, that's true, but it's so early. And they have the best technology. And as engineers, it seems obvious to us that customers should always just pick the best technology. And probably if you're Google, which has consumer roots, you're accustomed to a market dynamic that always shakes out such that the best technology wins. Google Maps won, because it was better than MapQuest, simple. Gmail was better than Hotmail. There's no selling, there's no training or there's no migration, it just happens. Now, Instagram. Consumer technology is always defined by, look, just make the best stuff, you'll get the most users. And I was talking to Janet Kennedy yesterday, who runs US and Canada, and she's been through like the IBM enterprise days and the Microsoft enterprise days.

And she was at IBM, early days, when it was like, OS/2 versus a Windows NT, and IBM had this big campaign of like, NT stands for not there. IBM arguably had... OS/2 was way better than windows, technically, and that's just one story. There's been story after story, and Chris has been in the industry for a long time. It's very often the case that the best technology has not won. So what is the conversation with the customer today, and what TK and all these sort of enterprise experts who are coming into the space are realizing and are helping partners execute the same way, which is, it's really about risk. That's how the enterprise buys. Yes, they want transformation, but nobody wants to lose their job for picking Google. They don't care if it's the best technology. They'll take the third best technology, if it means that their decision will not be questioned. So how do you have those transformational conversations?

It has to do... Yes, you have to be at least as... pretty much every time. But what about your commercial contracting ability? What about your enterprise support? What about professional services? What about product roadmap? What about my direct access to Google executives or SADA executives? That's what the enterprise engagement today looks like. And Google's also gotten smarter and more capable, since TK has arrived, to have a much broader strategic conversation with the largest customers. If you look at Activision going Google, that was not about, oh, you can run Call of Duty in our data centers versus yours, and that's better. It might be better, yes. This is about, we're going to transform gaming, with Stadia and everything else, and YouTube, and we are going to have a comprehensive strategy to transform Activision's business. Saber, Deutsche Bank, these 10 year, multi-billion dollar deals, that's about completely revolutionizing the banking experience for customers at Deutsche Bank.

And them being able to do with the data, things that they just could not do for the last a 100 years, running on mainframes. Sabre was like, transforming the travel experience from the moment you're searching for your flight on Not about, oh, you should move out of this data center and go to that data center. So I think more and more that's what customers are looking for, at least in the enterprise, or it's not even about, is this point solution from this vendor better than that vendor? Is the Cloud thing real? It's like, what is the transformational impact and outcome to my business, if I choose Google versus somebody else? How is Google as an enterprise going to support me versus somebody else?

And I think that's never been truer or more compressed in the context of digital transformation as we're facing right now, because every customer is different in their behavior than they were four months ago. So, if you're an organization that does not know how to meet your customer where they are, which is online or in their home or whatever, then your business model is dead.

Chris Beall (33:14):

We don't have many guests, but when we do, we have the best.


Every Mitigation is Untested - WFH or Going Back to the Office

Every mitigation is untested - do you continue to work from home or go back to the office #WFH

This episode of Market Dominance Guys starts with Chris recapping the numbers from the previous episode on the tremendous infusion of savings Work From Home creates as knowledge workers are no longer required to go into an office to be productive. Quite the opposite. The data supports they are as much as 47% more productive working from home - ending the commute economy.

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Work From Home Injects Over $1 Trillion Into the Economy




There's a whole bunch of commuters that are used to driving to cities. And I think it would be good and very timely talk a little bit about some of the things that we've learned and this massive economy that is forming from the non-commuter economy, the non-commuter economic forces. Chris will perhaps give us a little bit of hope, as far as what the trends are with this new stay at home economy.

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Why CEO’s Need to be Selling



(aka: The Problem Is Making Your Numbers)

Running your sales program with a conversation-first approach delivers needed information to you. Naturally, this is important to your sales department. After all, utilizing a conversation at the beginning of the sales process tells your sales team almost automatically if it’s worthwhile to have another conversation.


So, why should a CEO be selling when he has salespeople to do that job? Because there’s important information a savvy CEO can glean from having conversations with prospects. Information about how things are changing for prospective companies due to competition or demand for their products, about new leadership within their companies, and about the adjustments prospective buyers have had to make to meet the challenges of impactful events — like this pandemic. In these preliminary conversations, a CEO can truly keep his finger on the pulse of prospective buyers and detect how his own company’s product, service, or even sales message might need to be changed to better meet buyers’ needs.


In this podcast, Chris will also explain his take on a different result that has surfaced due to the pandemic. He begins with, “There’s a bad, bad disease in our economy, and it’s called commuting.” Listen while Chris expounds on his conclusion that the massive collapse of the commute economy is real — and that the effects of it have huge economic value.

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The Dog, The Fence and the Bone Problem.


The problem in sales is that the desire for the transaction puts most salespeople already behind the eightball. When he was growing up, Chris' family put up a chain-link fence originally for the goats, but a few years later it helped with the dogs and inspired an experiment.

Chris opened the gate 30-40 feet away from where he put a dog bone over the fence. His dog tried to go over, under, and through the fence, but couldn't get to the bone. But it also didn't back up enough to see the open gate. This is what most salespeople do.

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Celebrating a win isn’t anything, it’s just preparing for the next thing.


In this episode, Corey and Chris continue their conversation with a high Beta Market Dominance Practitioner MaxSold CEO, Sushee Perumal. aka "the skinny kid from India," MaxSold CEO, Sushee Perumal starting with why he felt he could successfully start an airline and his escape route when that failed. We open with Chris tying together his tapping of the bells analogy and plunging into Sushee's story which ultimately leads to MaxSold's growing success through a path of science, rather than simply tossing out millions of marketing dollars hoping it will work.

Chris reminds us, and Sushee agreed strongly that sometimes we have to wait before we can celebrate a win, funding, goals achieved.

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Magic Technology Doesn’t Mean You Can Execute a Business.


Chris and Corey's guest, Sushee Perumal, CEO of MaxSold tell us to take cautious steps when the tank is full of funding. Some of the highlights in this episode include:

Driving the concept of MaxSold's tagline, "From the sponge under the sink to the Ferrari in the driveway, we sell everything in two weeks." concept is the fact that live auctions were not and are not meeting the market needs. Sushee is the perfect example of Market Dominance, as well as a very likable person to know and work with. Hear this first of a two-part interview about the shortest path to market dominance.

From owning an airline because he wanted to cut his teeth in entrepreneurship, to dominating the market in relocation and downsizing services. Chris noted, "This is the end of the commute economy." This is because the relocation option we have completely turned this upside down in the recent months of COVID-19 - work from home forever.

Sushee explains how he chose to maximize the opportunity by minimizing the risk. Just because you have magic technology, doesn't mean you can execute new business.

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3 States of Your Business: In Flow, Stuck, and Waiting.


In this episode Corey asks Chris, "The other leaders that you've observed from being an investor or executive or being you know board member CEO, do you want to surround the issue and debate for the sake of maximizing all the different off-ramps that you could take or is it genuinely from a science level scientific level that you have your flag?"

This leads to Chris talking about the three stages of your business or career, he says, "I'd like to think of myself as the guy who insists that we go science first. And if you're going to go science first. That means you have to be ready to do experiments and experiments are very well understood. We know how to do experiments been doing a lot of science for a long time. That means you've got to be math first because doing experiments that don't have a shot mathematically is ridiculous and you shouldn't do that.

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Sales Pros - Your Experiences are Your Core Differentiator


Businesses are not evolutionary endpoints. Businesses can be endlessly inventive. Why is it that putting a bookstore on the internet would lead to the world's richest man? If price isn't your differentiator, you'll work really hard to find one and fail. A business plan tells you if it's worth doing. Will this have been worth doing?

What's the smallest thing I can do in the shortest amount of time that will give me evidence to confirm or disconfirm my core thesis? Root in your own experience, not in somebody else's business book. Your experiences are your core differentiator. That's what you're bringing to the party.

The person screwed on price wins on convenience or timing.
I want a startup because all the cool kids have a startup. Really? Every new business is a start-up.

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Sales Pros - Stop Worrying About the Deal.


Most sales professionals are familiar with the journey of a cold call.
It starts with fear. From fear we move to trust. From trust we move to curiosity. From curiosity we move to commitment, and from commitment to action.
In this episode, Corey and Chris remind us that there is only one discovery call or meeting. And a true discovery call or meeting doesn't have a destination in mind. Welcome to this episode of Market Dominance Guys, "Sales Professionals - stop worrying about the deal."

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The Power of the Anti-curse to Overcome Rejection


This is the continuation of the conversation with Donny Crawford about sales follow up, overcoming rejection, and likening sales to Google search results. Thank people for the conversation no matter how it went. This helps keep your emotions in check and allows you to move forward to the next call, even if you were rejected in the previous one. Get some very applicable and practical techniques in this episode of Market Dominance Guys - The Power of the Anti Curse to Overcome Rejection.

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How to Retain the People Who Want to Save Men’s Souls.



This is a continuation of the conversation we started the last episode with Mandy Farmer, CEO, Accent Inns. Chris asks Mandy the question of what's next after you have firmly decided that fun is the core of building a great business, and nothing will push me off this. How do you attract and retain the right people who hold these same values? Corey likened the tone of the company to something like the people who make Cards Against Humanity. Even their company contact info on the game sets the tone for their irreverence. They are the same all the way through from the product they make to the people who support it and lead the company. There is a box of awesomeness that is given to each new hire at Accent Inns. They know in a short period of time who is embracing their values and who is faking it. She does the fakers a favor and cuts them loose quickly, out of kindness to them and to her team. She says, "Fire fast, hire slow." Learn more about her success ideas in this episode of Market Dominance Guys, "How to retain the people who want to save men's souls."

If you missed the first part of this interview, please listen here >

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Fun is a Requirement for Business Success


Corey Frank and Chris Beall just had the fun privilege of recording a Market Dominance Guys podcast with Mandy Farmer, CEO of Accent Inns on the most important value in her business (and ours also, it turns out) - fun. This is part one of this interview with Mandy. Take a break and enjoy some lightness, as well as considering a new approach to help secure employee retention while growing your bottom line and see why she and her team are thriving in the hospitality industry while her competition is going through massive layoffs.

As soon as the border opens up and we can cross the border, our team will take the ferry north to have fun learning more about the crucial role of fun in business - the best way, by direct experience! Thanks, Mandy, for being our second guest ever, and for sharing the business power of fun with us today. And thanks, Ryan Reisert for introducing me to Natalie Corbett yesterday.

I'm so glad we took the opportunity to have these conversations. Conversations Matter. Fun conversations matter even more! Join us for this episode of Market Dominance Guys.

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Construct Your Company So it is Unappealing to Parasites.


Corey and Chris talk about when to hire the right people, how to hire the right people, and horror stories. It starts with the tension between talent and alignment. There are three scenarios you don't want to end up with a new hire. You always want people that are talented and aligned, or else you either don't hire them in the first place, or accept this and fire them now. You may have a candidate that is talented and capable. You think talent will take over and they will become alignment. Never happens. Lack of alignment may be due to a fundamental insincerity and sucking out of the company what they can. Yes, I can do that, hey can I have that corner office?

Next, you may run into the candidate that has no talent and no alignment. First, why would you EVER hire that person? If you did - time to fire them. The final is the tougher one. They have alignment, but why only have some of the talents you need, but not enough so they lack performance. They just aren't catching on. Join Chris and Corey for this episode of the Market Dominance Guys: Construct Your Company So It Is Unappealing To Parasites.

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The Culling of the Non-Professionals in Sales


In this episode, Chris Beall and Corey Frank continue their conversation with the co-author of Outbound Sales, No Fluff, Ryan Reisert. Chris shares a view that is a bit unpopular but rings true. He states that "This pandemic will civilize our society. This is part of the civilization of our society by which matching the need to the capability of a solution it will be done without lying, tricking, and pushing. It's a big honesty bath that will cleanse a lot of us off." Corey dives into the concept of a repeatable process and leadership vs. luck and leadership. The latter option scales well. For a guide on how to come out of this restructured sales environment with everyone working from home, join Chris, Corey, and Ryan for your tips of the week. This Market Dominance Guys episode is called The Culling of the Non-Professionals.

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#WFH - Sales Pros - Do You Stand Still, Learn More, or Dominate Your Market?


In this episode, Chris Beall and Corey Frank welcome co-author of Outbound Sales, No Fluff, and Sales Director, Ryan Reisert. In these uncertain times, sales pros are faced with waiting for the dust to settle, then try to regain their market or take this time to learn new skills and technologies.

There is a third option and that is to reframe conversations compassionately, patiently and gain control of your market. For a guide on how to come out of this restructured sales environment with everyone working from home, join Chris, Corey, and Ryan for your tips of the week. This episode is called #WFH Sales Pros - Wait, Learn, or Dominate Your Market.

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Three Reasons Sales Reps Don’t Follow Up


In this episode of the Market Dominance Guys, Chris Beall talks with ConnectAndSell's Customer Success Manager, Donny Crawford drilling it down to the three reasons Sales Teams don't follow up. When we hire people to sell for us, whether it's to sell meetings or whether it's to sell deals, we tend to put them under a compensation regime that emphasizes this quarter. Need happens at this moment to match up with what you can provide. And in order to determine their need, you have to have a discovery conversation with them. And until you have a discovery conversation, you don't actually know whether they need your offering at all much.

As we know that mounts the pressure to meet numbers of calls but doesn't usually accomplish closing more deals. Learn how yes, no, not now affects our emotion tied to rejection and perception of rejection - the ability to keep our emotions in check. This is part one of a two-part session.

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Would it Help if I Perform a Haka Before My Cold Calls?


By any measure, you can confidently claim that the New Zealand All Blacks rugby team is the world’s most successful team in the world. Famed for starting any game with their intimidating black jerseys and dramatic and culturally symbolic Haka – which is a traditional, Maori warrior challenge to the playing opposition, they have amassed a track record that is truly unequaled by any other sporting team. In more than a century of playing – they started in 1903 - the All Blacks have won almost 75% of their 580 plus matches in history. It is often said that the All Blacks remember their defeats more than their victories!

They accomplish this domination despite New Zealand having a population of only about 4 1/2 million people with their financial and player resources being dwarfed by the likes of other nations who compete at a high level like England, France, Australia, and South Africa. 

They truly punch above their weight class and make every match, every player, and every training session count.  

And just to show you that domination in your market does not have to equate to inflated egos or the proverbial “spiking of the football,” the All Blacks continue to enjoy enormous global success with their grounded sense of humility and character. And one of the most dramatic illustrations of this was at the end of the 2015 rugby world cup when New Zealand soundly beat Australia. At the end of the match Sonny Bill Williams, one of the All Blacks best players, gave his winning gold medal to a young boy named Charlie Line. Charlie had snuck onto the field at the end of the match to celebrate and was soon swarmed by security guards. Feeling sympathy young fan, Sonny stepped in and promptly gave his hard-earned medal to young Charlie - a kid he had never met before. He later said, 'Rather than have the medal hanging up and collecting dust at home, it’s going to be hanging around that young fella’s neck and he can tell that story for a long time to come!” The players on his market-dominant team are driven not to become merely a good All Black but a GREAT All Black. 

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You Only Live Once, But You Get to Serve Twice.


Federer, Nadal, Serena, Martina, McEnroe, Borg, Court, Navratilova…a roster of some of the best tennis players the world has ever known. 

But add one more name…Esther Vergeer to that list. Because she may actually be the most dominant and successful tennis player that you have never heard of. She won 148 career titles, 48 Grand Slam titles in singles and doubles, 23 year-end championships and seven gold medals. 

And she did it from a wheelchair. 

Esther Vergeer has used a wheelchair since she was 8, when an operation to correct hemorrhaging around her spinal cord left her paraplegic. So she took up tennis and shortly began to string together a list of titles that would be the envy of the tennis and sports world. 

From 2003 till retiring in 2013, Esther didn’t lose a single game. Not even one bad day. In these ten years, she had won 120 consecutive tournaments that amounted to 470 consecutive matches. And over the course of all these matches, she lost only 18 sets and was pushed to a match point only once.

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The Rise and Fall of the Sales Empire


The earliest civilizations on earth developed between 4000 and 3000 BC when the rise of agriculture and trade allowed people to have surplus food and economic stability. Many people no longer had to practice farming which allowed for a diverse array of professions and interests to flourish in a relatively confined geographic area. The use of fire, the advent of the wheel, learning to domesticate animals, and come up with this cool thing to record progress called writing, all of these became milestones as we climbed the “civilization tree. 

Later, in the colonial rush in the mid 16th century, the Western Europeans brought even newer technologies, ideas, plants, and animals that were new to the Americas and would transform peoples' lives – some not necessarily for the better: Things such as guns, iron tools, and weapons; But also Christianity and Roman law; sugarcane and wheat; horses and cattle all became hallmarks of a “civilized” society. 

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